How could the tourist authorities improve the tourism industry?

Your recommendations as to how the tourist authorities could improve the tourist industry.

The Secretary of State for Tourism, Joan Mesquida, speaking in Alicante on Tuesday, said he sees ‘no signs of recovery’ in the number of British tourists visiting Spain, which he described as half the foreign the number of foreign tourists which visit the Valencia region.

However there had been what he described as a ‘timid recovery’ in the number of German and French visitors.

Mesquida said that the main countries which send tourists to Spain are suffering a very complicated economic situation and that his had affected consumers in general and tourism in particular. He said in the case of the British not only was the country suffering higher unemployment, but travellers to the Eurozone were losing 30% in purchasing power because of loss of value of sterling.

What do you think? Please provide your opinions and recommendations to improve the tourist industry!

Comments

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May Dupname - Mas Touristas

|2009-10-16 14:26:24

Spend. Some. Money. On. TV. Advertising.

I see adverts for Egypt, Australia and New Zealand, for Mexico, for Dubai and for all manner of far-flung destinations, yet I can´t recall a TV advert suggesting that people come back to Spain.

The UK population, or at least those who don´t turn up at the airport with a suitcase full of baked beans, tea bags and Pot Noodles (by which I mean those who remember to take a little spending money with them) have, in steadily increasing numbers, been spending their holiday spondoolas on trips to Florida, to Australia, to Dubai and on cruises.

Spain, though still number one, has stood still, the relentless, upward march of prices being the only tangible sign of life.

The marketing of this wonderful country is woeful. There is a sense of complacency about the Spanish at times, not evident among their competitors.

Times are tough in the UK apparently. Not only do they have to cope with the pissing-down rain and grey skies, the Keystone Cops leadership of Gordon Brown and Lord Mandy, traffic jams and congestion charges but they have just discovered that their ´Oliday Quid is worth bugger all on the foreign exchange market.

Perhaps instead of offering the poor beleaguered Brits a fortnight on the Costas, we should offer them asylum from oppression.

Emmetsun - agree with may

|2009-10-16 15:01:05

I think May's right. People have been going to fancier destinations as Spain has been seen to be a bit plebby!

But next summer people will have less money to spend so may consider rediscovering this lovely country. But advertising will be required, or they'll all end up in Portugal, Italy and Greece!

Anonymous

|2009-10-19 18:36:09

Have a look at the cartel operating in the car rental business to charge for a full tank of fuel and return empty. Its a racket with most companies with a few exceptions and leaves a bad impression of ''RIP OFF' before you leave the airport. '

Ian M.

|2009-11-01 16:50:05

I have a holiday home in Spain I spend 6 months of the year there,and I agree that rather than Spain attracting British tourists they are chasing them away.Many of my UK friends who used to go to Spain no longer do so citing the following reasons:-Prices in the shops have increased greatly in the last year,car rental has soared,supermarkets are not attracting the same number of customers :-solution instead of reducing prices they are increased ,no wonder so may Brits now comeover with suitecases full of food.And of course there is the Euro & the Pound which is not the Spanish Tourist industries fault but has had a major effect on tourism.How can the tourist industry improve the situation doubt if they canl people are going to places outside the Eurozone to get what they used to get in Spain value for money too late was the cry the horse has bolted I honestly cannot see any way back it will only get worse.

Anonymous

|2009-10-20 09:44:21

On the whole I agree with the former comments. However, those comments apart, there is an increasing amount of rubbish to be seen everywhere. This is general and I know there are some exceptions but it does spoil the beaches and countryside and it's not the Spanish who are solely to blame. I have seen holiday makers from different countries leave their rubbish on beaches and trails. Bikers dropping empty water bottles to teenagers leaving remnants of their 'smaller' bottle parties. Mum's who leave disposable daipers undisposed of...... in a word 'disgusting' and spoils it for all.

Perhaps one area which could be improved is the provision of baby and sporting equipment, etc. in order to save people so much luggage (another bone of contention recently with luggage prices soaring for every item), but for instance, baby cots, pushchairs, high chairs, wheel chairs and other invalid equipoment, golf clubs, bikes, canoes..... I'm sure there is a market for these things at a small rental cost.

Tilly - Spanish Tourism

|2009-10-20 13:14:45

Abolish all forms of so called Fiesta´s that include bulls.Fiesta yes--the use of bulls NO !!
Spain has a very bad reputation now with regard to the amount of bulls tourtured and killed to amuse the Spaniards.

Customs? Its living in the past,wake up Spain.Your country needs tourism and the money it brings.
Stop ALL forms of animal crualty that Spain is so famous for.

jules belmont - tourism in spain

|2009-10-20 13:30:33

I have been living in spain for the past 19 years, and having travelled and lived in a number of countries, I think spain is the greatest. Where it falls down is the fact that it never has been
(and probably never will be) service oriented. In many establishments it seems the customer comes last. The government should launch an advertising campaign aimed at the service industry stressing the importance of providing good service to visitors in a friendly manner.
this is what visitors remember the most. their experiences(good or bad) is what they take home with them and pass on to others.

Penny - Tourism in Spain

|2009-10-21 14:56:58

I so agree with all the above comments. The Spanish shop keeper would rather stand around talking than serving and taking money. They have few common curtesies, barge past you in queues, stand in the middle of the pavements, spit and drop litter. The Graffiti is all over the place and dogs foul the pavements. In the Campo there is fly tipping everywhere. Not all of this is down to the Spanish we know that but the Spanish have got to get their house in order. How can they expect us to respect their beautiful country when they make no effort to respect it, us or themselves!
What are the police doing. This anti social behaviour must be illegal and fines must be paid by every nationality to get the streets and campo cleared up. As someone else said come on Spain wake up this is the 21st Century.

Baz - Mr

|2009-10-25 20:43:41

Hi i think you need to move to England and live here for a few years then you will have a better out look in Spain. You work to support all the hangers on and they are still flooding the the country.
Go to Worthing beach and see people with the dogs is all over and we have the most polluted sea you would not want your dog to swim in it,People in shops dont want to speak or smile you need to move in to this country then see how you feel.good luck

anon - brits

|2009-10-22 11:08:34

As most of the spanish say (if you could understand them.) If you do not like the way we live ,please go back to your country, we lived without you before and we can live without you now.

Emmetsun

|2009-10-22 11:17:50

I realise that these opinions are designed to stir up a little trouble, but why do we have to have ignorant racists like BJ Deller (make sure you don't buy his book!) and ungrateful whingers like Penny contributing? It gives the impression that TRE welcomes these sorts of people.

I agree with "anon" above. If you don't like it here, just go back home!

Also, why can people post anonymously? Nobody needs to use their real name and it makes it easier to "get to know" people. It just seems a bit cowardly not to use your normal handle.

Brian J Deller - Realist not racist

|2009-11-29 20:44:28

Emmetsun who bemoans those who post not using their real name and then does it him(?)-self, will be - no already is being proven wrong with his opinions and to call me a racist can be called a racist act in itself, but no space here to explain that. But ask yourself if the
now over 4.500 black Zimabaweans who have died of cholera there or who are starving to death, or the 3.00 + white Africans in South Africa as well who are having their farms stolen from them by the terrorist politicians who then let the land return to jungle putting thousands of loyal farm workers (to the old white Africans) on the scrap heap and causing more begging for food (aid) from the West. I could go on but my attitudeand factual opinions are being proven right and will be even more so as time goes by against those who get their opinions third-hand from propaganda publications. I see the Swiss have voted to ban minarets in their country. Why not start a blog agaisnt that democratic act? Let us hope such a referendum is carried out in the rest of the EU for many of us are ignoring the terrible danger we face in the near future. Emmetsun will call the BNP fascists but they have never stopped anyone expressing their opinions as many othrs are who are true fascists. But the support for this party is fast growing as the common folk realise that the present establishment is very flawed and even corrupt, in my oipinion. I am not a BNP member but I read their web site as I do all the others but we must remeber that they have come intom existence because the other parties are letting Britain down badly with their arrogant PC policies and this will be shown at the next election there. And Emmetsun, I have a good idea who you are, someone who is obviously a coward by not putting your real name to your comments that always seem to attack me personally but that tends to give the game away as I have so few "enemies" here because most folk think for themselves, not just use the stupid "racist" word from behind a pseudonym. I challenge you to reveal,your real name. Or are you just an anonymous bag of wind?

Emmetsun - Tin hat at 11 o'clock

|2009-11-30 16:48:36

Nice one, BJ.

I haven't criticised anyone for posting using a pseudonym. In fact, I don't have any problems with someone being recognisable in their posts. Anonymous posts I dislike. But my posts are not anonymous.

Since it's obvious that you do no research whatsoever before blowing off, I'll leave you to witter on.

imoff onwon - tourism

|2009-10-22 19:17:02

where to start, it all starts as soon as you arrive at malaga airport, they do their best to hide the train station, hardly a sign in sight. thats so the taxi mafia can get ya. as said above,if you escape that trap, the rent a car mob will get ya, the toll road prices go up as soon as the tourist hunting season starts, the shops take as long as possible to serve you, the police and grua fine or tow you away as quick as possible. prices of sun beds, car parks, hotels,food , drinks, etc etc. all go up. it seems that almost every road in the malaga area gets dug up at the same time, lorrys park in car sized parking places blocking roads and causing even more hold ups and delays. THE LAND GRAB, might only be one case as mr Maurice B. keeps telling us, but it seems that the whole of the U.K. knows about it. (and they dont like it). so one case or not, it hasnt done spains image much good. that will do for now. And YES, the spanish did get along without us before, but im not so sure they would like to go back to fishing and farming now that they have tasted the good life.

Rob - Tourism

|2009-10-24 14:34:24

Anon above wrote -
"As most of the spanish say (if you could understand them.) If you do not like the way we live ,please go back to your country, we lived without you before and we can live without you now."
What a strange thing to write given that the topic is how to improve the tourist industry! If the Spanish really say that, I doubt it actually, then clearly they do not need tourism nor, for that matter, do tourists need Spain!!

jolly john - tourism

|2009-10-25 10:28:34

well i have had spanards say similar remarks when the likes of bj deller start spouting forth on how to run their country.
what do you exspect from them i mean you only need to look at the owner of this station been here 30 years tells all what they should do, in english as he cannot be bothered to learn the language and thinks the spanish should learn english . oh and what has happened to this station ,its opinions are nearly the same as the BNP,there is freedom of speech here only if you agrree with the boss.
How does this relate to the subject ?Well if the above points were corrected and a more liberal attitude taken of relaxed intergration .Spain perhaps would get a better type of tourist rather than the toe rags , that come now .

rob - tourism

|2009-10-27 07:31:32

jolly john, how about you making a start to learn to spell in write correctly in English and then maybe the owner of this station might be encouraged to learn Spanish (assuming you are correct in saying he cannot speak it)? Kettle calling pot black comes to mind!

Emmetsun - Jolly John!

|2009-10-26 08:18:19

Jolly John is a genius. The Spanish tourist authorities can improve tourism by getting Maurice to learn Spanish.

bernard lomas - Mr.

|2009-10-26 09:38:45

Various local authorities should advertise local attractions.All too often fiestas ,flamencos sports etc take place without anyone knowing about them.We all know we should learn Spanish but with a Senior Citizen population its not too easy ,we learn it one day and forget it the next.Another problem is too many of the population speak English which encourages us to take the easy way out

jolly john - tourism

|2009-10-26 11:21:57

Tilly - Jolly John

|2009-10-26 11:48:16

Sorry Jolly John, the manager of Arsenal is not Spanish but French,thus has no special ties with the Spanish Embassy.

jolly john - liverpool rafael benitez

|2009-10-26 17:13:44

sorry tilly got my teams mixed why i put arsenal and not liverpool i do not know . so sub liverpool and you get rafael benitez and the rest of info applies.

Sue - Jolly John

|2009-10-28 18:30:53

mr toad - not me

|2009-10-30 17:42:40

1, not me posting ask sion ,2, little I maybe, but it is not how big you are but how you use it!3, i am an x public school boy so i was brung up propper not an irish bog trotter,4, toads are not pests we eat insects and when are backs are licked cause a rather nice hallucinogenic effect. I hope that clears up this little misunderstanding.

Sue - Jolly John (Toad) (Guest)

|2009-10-31 16:37:13

Peter - Dont Blame the Spanish !!!!

|2009-10-27 14:29:51

For thirty years or so, we have successfully turned the Spanish coast into a sort of little britain and we have enjoyed the finacial benifits from it. However, lines of bars all blasting SKY tv are not enough to attract tourist with money to spend. We all know that the spanish tax system does little to promote a higher class of development but rather is the benificiary of bar and business failure. Sure the spanish must decide what they want but at the same time the Brits are trying to sell a product that is 20 years behind the times, There are simply not enough money-spending tourists to maintain the present system. Five years down the line the Brit Gettos will be deserted. I have been here ten years and have absolutely no plans to return to a cold. dirty and expensive Britian

Rob - Dont Blame the Spanish !!!!

|2009-11-04 09:44:47

Peter, I am puzzled by your final sentence. What have your apparent plans not to return to "a cold, dirty and expensive Britain" got to do with the topic of tourism? If that is a true representation of Britain then surely the Brits should be flocking here to get away from it. I guess we all have different views but expressing your unfounded prejudices about Britain seems to me to be totally irrelevant.

Ian - Customer Service

|2009-10-29 12:00:20

Customer service, Customer service, Customer service and of course ....Customer service! Spain has the climate, the beaches, the fresh air, the sea and mountain views, shops of all shapes, sizes and services, a place to eat or drink every 20 meters. What Spain really lacks is the customer service in the majority (unfortunately) of everything Spain has to offer.

A smile costs nothing, “Hello / Hola” a cost free warming welcome, to acknowledge a person who has entered a shop even just to inform them that you are there if they need any help can be an “ice breaker” between customer and shop assistant, to be brought an extra sugar when you ask without the rolling eyes, to receive what you actually order whether that be food, drink, goods or services are all FREE ways to promote what Spain really has to offer.

Spending millions on advertising to bring millions of people to Spain only to leave disappointed is a time wasting exercise, the core of the problem lies within the borders of Spain, advertising smiling faces, good customer service and happy tourists would be, to a degree, in danger of constituting “false advertising.”

Spain is a terrific place to live, that’s why we are all here, I myself will have been here 15 years soon and have no plans to go back to the UK. Perhaps we are somewhat to blame in the deterioration of the Spanish customer service. We as foreigners living here are after all, ambassadors for the people of our nations that arrive as tourists. Perhaps we, for too long, have complained endlessly that we have somehow demoralized the Spanish willpower to greet us with the smiles and open arms that I once remember. Perhaps if we, dust off our courtesy and put it back into action the Spanish people once again will feel at ease when a foreigner enters an establishment, perhaps once again the smiles and welcoming arms will return and perhaps once again many millions of tourists will leave with good memories and actually want to return again, even if it is just to buy the same old castanets, fans and Spanish dolls with a coffee and brandy by the beach.

So how to improve Spain´s tourism…. Lets carry the smiles, warm greetings and open arms, after all, that’s what they will see on the adverts, that’s what they will be expecting, let’s try not to disappoint any longer.

May Dupname - More Tourists, por favor

|2009-11-04 18:01:42

I have to agree with a great deal of what you say here Ian.

I suppose we can all reminisce about our first few visits to Spain. One of the things I remembered was how friendly the Spanish people were. How much they seemed to enjoy life more than the soggy, surly Brits.

Things have undoubtedly changed here and for the worse.

So, Ian, taking your points, I would suggest that the spend on TV advertising is, as I said, increased but at the same time, in deference to your well-put argument, that some form of infomercial be broadcast at peak time on Spanish TV, explaining tp the Spanish how they are regarded by visitors to their country, and how those views have changed.

It really is a serious issue as a huge amount of Spain´s GDP is derived directly or indirectly through tourism.

Perhaps within schools too, the young could be educated in a better view of the tourism industry and its importance to the country.

I´m not suggesting kow-towing deference, with all Spanish being treated like Manuel from Fawlty Towers, but instead, more of a professional attitude towards their guests.

Well put Ian!

Ian	\|2009-11-04 20:41:09

Thank you for your kind words. I agree with you as far as advertising Spain on TV abroad, in order to bring the tourists we need, it plays an important part. I also believe that if it is going to work, the people working here (and not just in the tourist trades) do need to advance their "people skills" dramatically. A balance needs to be drawn between improving the “people skills” and advertising the country as a whole. Unfortunately these skills are lacked by people working here from all nations, not exclusively Spanish I may add. I think I can pin point where the problem lay also….
1) Many years ago, to reside in Spain we had to prove financial viability and that you were not going to be a drain on local resources, to open a business you had to have a Spanish business partner, we were in that sense forced to “integrate” in order to live here in the first place. That forced integration in turn, gained us “mutual respect” and brought to the coast a certain “standard” of foreigner due to the requirements.

2) Several years later the rules were slightly relaxed and you no longer had to have a Spanish business partner. The social security system introduced a requirement for social security payments for market traders (where a lot of foreigners began their trading in Spain) which meant you had to enter the system but, you had independence from requiring a Spanish business partner. From this point on, the forced integration had disappeared, it became a “them and us” thing. It spawned the Brit bar revolution for example! It created enclaves of foreigners mixing with their own and missing out on all Spain and its people had to offer. I could imagine this generated some resentment on the part of the Spanish, after all, the Brits that used to frequent their bars now frequent a 100% British owned bar. Back then, people remembered from their holidays in Spain over their working life and chose it as a place to retire and set up business, they remembered times from my previous paragraph (1). Yes, their memories of Spain brought them here, they remembered the smiles, happy times and good service…… now were getting somewhere…..

3) These days, any European citizen has the right to reside in any European country (and that is perfectly correct if we are to make this a genuine Europe.) There are no pre-requisites of any kind, the E111 form now redundant any European can use the health service, we now have an ambulance service, fantastic motorways, Police cars that don’t break down in pursuit and we don’t even need a residence card anymore. Spain has become more the like the countries we once left and less like the Spain we remember and desired. The people coming to Spain today to set up business remember how nice it was to be sat in an English bar on their holidays during their working lives of this new generation, they are remembering times from paragraph 2 ! They remember the “us and them” that was happening, they remember some British bar owner making lots of money and boasting on how great it is in Spain and how WE do it better than them. Hence…. This new generation brought the same attitude, the mutual respect has turned into a “mutual disrespect.” Us complaining about them, them complaining about us etc…. So the question begs, what will we have to offer the tourists of the next generation to come? Will they even want to come? When and if they do come what will we have to offer them?
A combination of education and advertising, perhaps a government led scheme where as a part of the opening license requires a few lessons in “people skills” would go a long way to at least making sure the people in our communities are of a minimum standard at least. I agree with you in the info-commercials and school education also. We were once all separate nations, they use the word Ex-pat like we were all traitors to our home countries for moving here (Ex Patriotic), now we are expected to drop our patriotism and say were European, all as one. For today’s generation that is true, we are all as one, but “we” landed somewhere in the middle, the “them and us” era I mentioned earlier. Education now whilst we are all now “Europeans” may fix that now, remove the problems and create a new Spain.
One thing is for sure, things seem to be going from bad to worse, I have never seen so many available shops to rent, so many glum looking workers and so many empty bar terraces. The problem is not going to fix itself and it is too late for one individual to read this and try to make a difference, it will take all of us to try to make a difference, a bit of help from the powers that be and hopefully, whilst we can’t turn back the clock, we can make Spain a modern Spain that people can enjoy and remember and want to return to time and time again!
Sorry for dragging it out, but you can’t explain Spain`s decline in 50 words! Thank god this isn’t twitter!

Vere	\|2009-10-29 14:53:57

Enough of the Vonage advertising already ! I know you need to have sponsors, advertisers etc etc, but its got to the point where I actually turn off poor Old Roy Silverthorne as he is a walking Vonage billboard, and Im damned if I will ever buy the product....call me grumpy !

ARL - Tourism

|2009-10-31 20:03:35

I live in the Costa del Sol and have been here for 6 years now. From personal experience, comments from many friends and clients who have traveled here, as well as endless comments from people who live here, i continually hear the same thing; The service is terrible, the prices are to high and the staff in most businesses really don't care. The attitude and ignorance here along with the "this is Marbella so you have to pay more" attitude is driving people away and stopping people from coming back. We have countless friends who have moved away from here because of this. People are always talking about how nice it is to travel to different places just to get a smile from a waitress or service when walking into a store, rather then being treated like you are interrupting them. As far as i am concerned, things here will continue to get worse, with tourism, until this is corrected....

John Spence - Jolly John, Toad, Guest, Andrew etc

|2009-11-01 05:57:46

Toad. I couldn’t agree with Sue more. You hijacked and totally destroyed the last Forum. So here you are again making the most ridicules statements that; ‘If Maurice Boland spoke Spanish tourism would improve’ !!! Why don’t you stick to your own pathetic website where you can speak to yourself all day and lets all get back to the subject in hand!!!

May Dupname - Toad

|2009-11-04 18:09:09

Well, firstly, it´s MY pathetic website (it was good fun at one stage!!!!) Perrhaps you should have vented your spleen thereon - there was no subscription fee!!

Secondly, that isn´t Toad, masquerading as jolly john, so you are barking up the wrong tree.

Don´t believe me? Ask the Admin.

And lastly, I think it was a team effort that ended up with the last forum being pulled.

Well, that and a refusal to accept criticism on the part of those who had hold of the plug what got pulled.

The station has been off the air again today for hours...... No, I´m not going there again!

British Colonial - the end of Spain

|2009-11-02 08:28:59

Spain, which is breaking up of its own accord anyway, should cede all of coastal Andalusia to Gibralter -

This would encourage Brits to come back - as a pounds a pound and also encourage the rest of europe to visit as they enjoy instantly a 10% increase in spending power.

Ian	\|2009-11-02 17:18:04

The Brits come due to it NOT BEING ENGLAND in the first place, I can just see it now, a Gaza style strip in Spain, dont think so somehow :-) The Blackpool of Gibralter, let me guess, we could decorate the 88.9 transmitter to be Blackpool tower...... Thankgod we have elections to put people in power and not a lucky draw :-)

HUFC - The tourist problem

|2009-11-03 07:21:27

Firstly car hire is not cheap during the school hols, how does 800 Euros for 10 days for a 7 seater sound, factor in nothing is available from Granada or Almeria only Malaga, which means a coach trip from Granada aeropuerto to Granada bus station , then a bus to Malaga, then a bus to Malaga aeropurto, then the drive to Mojacar where the villa was. This all has to be reversed at the end of the holiday.
Villa prices have not reduced since the credit crunch, again £700 for 10 days, oh yes it was private with pool, and the best we've had yet. but £70 a day.
The racism from the Brits in Mojacar, yes Im white British but my missus aint, shes a cockney but of Indian heritage. Its not nice getting dirty looks, its funny how you never get it from the local Spanish.
The euro/pound rate has gone down from 141 to 108 in the last 2 years, that bumps up the cost considerably.
Finally I have been coming to Spain since the mid 60's since Franco and his guards met you at the aeropurto with triangular hats and guns, before the costa's were ruined with tower blocks, and the invasion of Brits. I dont suppose my thoughts count though.
Viva Toad at least he makes you think.

Emmetsun - Toady

|2009-11-03 16:10:26

siongraham - Moderator

|2009-11-04 07:29:39

A forum (which TRE are not currently operating) allows people to have a "proper" debate and - within acceptable boundaries - have a dig at other posters.

This "Opinion Page" is aimed more at asking people to contribute thoughts around a prepared subject, and lends itself less to slagging eachother off as it causes the comments to drift away from commenting on the article given! Obviously constructive comments about eachother's opinions are welcome.

I can confirm that "Toad" has not (in this case) been cross posting using different aliases. I hope this clears things up for everyone.

Pigwhisperer - Reality

|2009-11-04 10:50:56

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but the BBC Radio 4 programme "Repossessions in the Sun" broadcast Monday 2nd November is worth listening to - on iPlayer if you can. OK, the sun may shine (most of the time) but that isn't everything. In fact it can be nothing for you who live there permanently and are living in the middle of a battlefield. The result of a massive mismanagement by the Spanish Government, national and local, and the wide-eyed innocence of Brits expecting their whole lives to be spent "on holiday". Unfortunately, it is not in the Spanish psyche to confront the situation and find a clear solution for getting out of the mess. Spain and its residents will have to wait until the economies of northern Europe regain their strength and the Euro loses some of its strength. There are 1 million new homes and 2 million holiday homes on the market (El Pais). There is no real market. Good luck.

HUFC - Mr Toads reply over on the "other forum"

|2009-11-05 11:18:18

Many thanks for the reply re: diabetes about my son, which has been deleted, as I guess it was off topic. I did get the info though.

I enclose for your info Mr T's reply on the other site:

"thank you Sion for posting it on the opinion page i am posting my thanks here not on tre as i have given my word not to post again over there .
Oh i wonder whether sue , John spence, and emmetsun will have the courtesy to apologise for their unfounded accusations i doubt it, and before anyone says to the contrary , if i am wrong i apologise ask mobo i have to him personally and publicly in times past.
Still i am glad it is all settled and you over there can continue with your debate on tourism keeping on subject and not wavering from the designated guidelines applied by your moderator.
I of course will continue to say what i like over here as i am self administrating. It is called freedom of speech something you do not have on your opinion page on TRE. "

Finally I (HUFC) liked the old forum with the debate, and am not a newcomer, I set up the Song Title Game, which ran for a few months and had the most replies on the site.

Percy - Improving the coast

|2009-11-10 03:03:38

Many points have already been covered by previous contrributors, so I won't repeat the all-too-justified complaints about service (or lack of service), over-pricing and the general contempt that a lot of Spanish businesses seem to feel for the people whose spending power made their business possible in the first place. I also agree with the negative comments regarding the attitude of many foreigners, both tourists and residents.

But one essential problem has not been mentioned so far, which lies at the heart of all the problems on the coast. The way local councils are financed is bizarre. The only direct income they have is the IBI Land Tax (which none of us like to pay, but which really isn't that high, considering it is the only direct income of the town.) In addition to that, councils receive a certain amount of money from the Government, depending on the number of registered residents. Hence the constant calls for foreigners to register with their town hall. Of course, this is absolute madness in a tourist area! The estimated couple of million tourists who come here every summer can't be expected to register as resident, but still they use the roads, the health service and the beaches. And the madness doesn't stop there. The number of registered inhabitants dictates how many hospital beds a city can have, how many public doctors, how many nurses, how much money is allocated for infrastructure ... the list is endless. It is a totally absurd, archaic system that will never work in a country that totally depends on tourism!

Wake up, Spain. Wake up, Zapatero. No amount of EU funds and no "Plan E" can get you out of this mess. Change this ridiculous system and give the councils the means to work properly. It is a disgrace that cities like Marbella felt the only way to prop up the coffers was to sell building licenses. It has led to the irresponsible over-development, the outrageous property boom and of course, the wide-spread corruption. There should be absolutely no municipal income from property developing as it is the responsibility of the town to prevent excessive development, rather than be a benificiary from it.

A simple solution would be to create a law for "Areas turisticas" - tourist areas - where the town halls can keep 50% of all VAT generated in the town and have the freedom to build as many hospitals and employ as many doctors, nurses and other staff as they require. It would give a city like Marbella the opportunity to really develop the way it now is forced to do (sadly, it can never be the sleepy village again), and it could also mean that some of the money spent by the wealthy "big spenders" reaches the poor of this area through social housing and similar projects.

As to promoting the Coast abroad, no amount of promotion can beat reality, and reality simply isn't good enough to sustain a high level of tourism. Who wants to visit a chaotic building site? I pass San Pedro every day ... a nightmare! And by the way, where's that famous coastal train that's been promised since the sixties?

One last point though - do we really want MORE tourists? I for one would rather aim for more quality, not more quantity - certainly not more UK binge drinkers - we still get plenty of those!

IAN	\|2009-11-11 12:28:40

Well said! ready for a classic on how town halls are HELPING tourism .... come down and see our recently renovated beach front in Torremolinos, new paving, newly laid road surface, new lighting, plans for WIFI across the whole area and then look down at the road...... A new yellow line for no parking accross the whole of the beach front area !!! GREAT !! Welome to Torremolinos to all you tourists who have driven to your airports, braved the hours in the airport security checks, amused yourselves during the few hours of flight, finally collected your luggage from the belt, collected your extortionately priced rent a car and paid through the nose for the tank of fuel it came with to take you to the hotel with the "excelent customer service" you unpack, drive down to the beach only to find you have to park practically where you have just come from, carry your prams, beach equipment and young children just to have that relaxing day on the beach that you were promised in the brochure :-) WELL DONE TORREMOLINOS (anybody have any other interesting schemes from their town halls that are helping tourism?)

Emmetsun - Parking?!?

|2009-11-12 08:56:47

They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Ian has cleverly demonstrated that for us.

IAN	\|2009-11-12 19:16:59

Thats becuase no matter how bad it looks I choose to see the funny side, the irony of making a new beach front for the tourists then preventing them from really being able to benefit from it. You dont see the funny side, ok, no problem for me, sticks and stones and all that.

I live in Torremolinos, I have a business in Torremolinos, I employ people in Torremolinos, I have helped pay for the beachfront and yellow line, i think I am entitled to an opinion over it but respect that you may feel diferent.

So, may I, in my lowest form of wit, ask you, as this is the whole topic here.... Do you think that what Torremolinos has done to the beach front is helpful to bringing tourists?

expatrevo - clean up

|2009-11-17 07:35:53

- clean up the roads, the litter, roadkill and rubbish, the first thing that the tourists see.
- plant more green stuff.
- Controll the airport taxis, can´t be that difficult to just give them an id badge and have 1 man at the salida of llegadas checking badges and putting clients in taxis- simples.
- there is nothing for families to do when they are here. how many times can you go to aquapark. It costs a fortune. the things available for tourists are all too organised.i.e crocodiles and zoo. what about petting farms and rabbit farms and woods, you can turn any abandoned woody area into anything with the addition of a wooden cafe and some fencing. lets simplify things. plastic play parks are insufferable in the summer.
-and i agree 100% that we need to treat everyone better. Tourists and Spanish alike, lets show them starting here, now.

sid torrox - Retired

|2009-11-28 17:53:39

Simple, just reduce the price of beer to 1 euro. and clean up.

rbracken - service

|2009-11-30 01:18:27

simply a hello, and an answer when i ask my hotel front desk clerk (not even a concierge) a question re restaurants sightseeing shopping etc etc would be lovely. are the staff not trained at all on the area ? then why bother advertising to the US public ? keep your dollars coming in from the UK ... and when looking for ice in the public lounge i would like to NOT be treated like a stealing criminal. should i offer to pay for ice ? free champagne wine snacks hor doerves etc. i realize ice is not readily accessible but there is an ice machine on the premises....certainly if these establishments can pay for all this alcohol they will eventually realize that some of us really want which is ice,,,,ice machines are not that expensive... nor are plastic ice trays.

Justaline - The whole package

|2009-12-03 09:18:42

Warm friendly service
Quality for money

Personally I prefer someone who laughs and smiles
Rolling out a red carpet is secondary.

My relatives love visiting us here on the Costa, we have our favourite places to visit that still offer the friendly service.

David Ensor

|2009-12-08 18:59:49

How about finally building te sewage works in Nerja? We have lived here 10 years now and sea bathing has now become so distasteful that we have more or less given it up. Sanitary towels, nappies, contraceptives and so on are NOT nice for bathers. Not to mention "other" waste. CLEAN UP THE ACT NERJA. Apparently they've had the money to do the job for years already. Other areas are even worse (Caletta for example). We used to sail in teh bay but finding oursleves in the midst of a pool of raw sewage occasionally was not really nice!

I guess some attempt to stop the ever increasing prices (especially since the advent of the Euro) would help also.

Finally of course the beaches although clean are extremely stony in many resorts along the costa-del-sol. Why not import sand, there's plenty of it along the atlantic coast!

Jack Nusbaum

|2009-12-25 11:03:53

Come on, dear Folks - the use by date for all of this "opinion" stuff is long gone and should be in the deep six.

Jack

Mark - Tourism

|2009-12-28 13:19:33

Hi,

I agree with Jack. Let's have something else. How about a Forum where we can all exchange a variety of opinions, all at the same time.

Cheers
Mark

Mr Toad - change the opinion page

|2010-01-04 11:26:25

Mark what a good idea a forum where we can exchange opinions , all at the same time.
Why did nobody think of this idea before well done mark.

Mark, Acaucin - Tourism

|2009-12-31 13:23:51

I thought so to. Let's start one now. I'll get the ball rolling by wishing everybody a Happy, Healthy (Stealthy, if you are American) and Wealthy New Year. Also Happy New Year to you May and all the best with your Forum. How's the Frog these days. He's a bit of a celebrity now.

Tonight I'll raise a glass to all the ex-Forumers

Cheers
Mark

May Dupname - You asked for it!

|2010-01-03 12:42:47

You´re all welcome over at my place. Surely you know where it is by now! Choose your own topics and discuss away.

PS No, I don´t make any money from it!! The Cheek!!

Mark, Alcaucin - You asked for it

|2010-01-03 14:04:38

Hi May,
Perhaps you should make money by having adverts.

Cheers
MArk

mr toad - the new forum

|2010-01-04 15:14:51

so this is the new forum , mark , may , do you think they will let it be ,then would be nice if they did , but watch out the wipe out hand of the moderator will come and smite you for being off topic. so come on folks comment on what you want before you get censored.thanks sean for correcting my name glad to know you are doing your job of moderator, you have your work cut out for you as a rebellion seems to be taking place.

May Dupname - Sapo

|2010-01-05 07:54:21

Now Toad, there you go again with your rallying cry to arms. Shame on you for suggesting that a rebellion is in the wind (in the willows)

That Mark of Alcaucin has mentioned the forum that shall not be mentioned except by the station proprietor mentioning the unmentionable should not be misconstrued, my fine amphibian friend.

And as far as being off-topic, the solution could be that you can blather on in your inimitable way to your hearts content, then, at the end of your froggy rant, make a small, relevant comment on how to improve the tourist industry in Spain.

Personally, I think that we should advertise the fact that here on the Costa Blanca, winter does not consist of nasal drip, nor the aromas of damp clothing and Vick´s Vapourub.

Plus, from next year, you won´t leave our bars and restaurants with your clothes and hair reeking of fag smoke.

Instead, your clothes and hair will be perfumed by the wonderful aromas of B.O, farts, beer, prawns in garlic and chip fat.

¡¡E Viva España!!

(PS - see Toad? Just write any old ballax at the end of the other ballax you´ve written!!)

Mark Alcaucin - Forum 2 - The sequel

|2010-01-05 14:37:43

Brilliant May.

May I just say that it will be great coming from bars smelling of beer etc. As I play bass in a band in a bar every Sunday. So it will be great not to reek of fag. June is, I believe, the month for the ban. Howver, will it be enforced?

Tourism, and how to improve it, ban smoking in all public places.

Cheers
Mark

mr toad - tourism my frog bottom

|2010-01-05 15:42:10

I am going to get bollixes for posting here as i did say i would not but i cannot resist a wind up, and seeing as nobody is posting it will not upset anyone will it. ha ha ,just you wait and see
Mark what type and where do you play live music, it is a great way to promote tourism ,and i am with you on fag smoke great for tourism and great for me , enforcing is simple and effective .
Fine the owners 2000€ if anyone found smoking on their premises, and 500€fine on the person doing it. After two or three prosecutions the spanish will stop. As they did regards seat belt wearing hit them in the pocket and they will stop and so clean up the public premises and attract more tourism.
Did i do it right may? Got to start the new year right cause i am toad the green(not gandolf the grey)

Mark Alcaucin - Tourism and Other Animals

|2010-01-06 14:08:10

Hi Toad,
Happy New Year. I hope you are well. That was an excellent piece. Couldn't have done better myself. Well done.

Gordon Brown has single handidly stopped global warming judging by the weather in the UK. Now they want to get rid of him. Perhaps Gordon could sort out the property problems in Spain while he's at it.

Tourism will be improved if Spain is forced to sort out it's property management ineptitude and greed by the Juntas and Ayuntamientos.

Cheers
Mark

Mark Alcaucin - Sorry Toad, I forgo to answer your question

|2010-01-06 14:10:29

I play in a rock band in a bar called Moreno's in Puente Don Manuel in Malaga provence.

Sorry Toad.

Mark

Thomas Hughes - Tourism

|2010-01-06 18:57:23

I have for the first time read the comments on tourism. Many are very constructive and many are very childish remarks. I would just like to remind everyone that it is the tourist that put Spain on it's feet, not forgetting the massive aid from the EEC.
There are now many problems in Spain, grossly over-priced rental apartments, run down areas in prime holiday locations, extensions to bars that are no better than garden sheds, graffiti, dog fouling etc,etc. I am refering to the Montemar area of Torremolinos( Hotel Pez Espada, Barracuda, Nautilus, Timor Sol and Aloha Puerto Sol region, personnally it looks like a shanty town and not an up market holiday resort.There has been no investment in this area for the last 25 years.
Forget the rate of exchange you cannot blame Spain for that, but the appearance and attitude of ALL business people must change.Also the local authorities must take a great deal of the blame for the fall in tourism. Travellers today require more than just sunshine.

mrtoadmarkmay - rock bands and tourism , good or bad?

|2010-01-07 16:24:31

mark ,shame a bit far to go for to listen to live music i am in the costa Blanca and talk to some one who has a sense of humour and does not have a patriot rod rammed up their botty.
thy tend to take everything seriously.
what i do not understand if it is as bad as thomas says why is he living here ,he states he has been here for 25 years and it has been like it for that time.
nothing is perfect but i like living in spain if i did not i would leave .
Maybe if all these wining brits who hate it so much left a higher standard of tourists would come to spain , i am making radical though constructive remarks , not childish , why is it when someone makes a slightly humorous remark mr hillypoelya comes out the cupboard.
Please note no comments here for ages people calling for a new opinion , or new forum i make some remarks and bingo john thomas ,sorry thomas hughes starts commenting .
So you see mr toad does stimulate discussion and debate ,i am like fairy lasts longer goes.
further. TOAD IS GREENER HE,S GLOBALY WARMER THAN MOST.

Mark Alcaucin - Tourism

|2010-01-08 11:12:32

It's a pity that you can't make it down here Toady. Did you know that Ginger Baker's famous drum solo in Cream was called Toad? You are doubley famous.

It's a shame that Thomas Hughes thinks some comments are childish. We all entitled to an 'opinion', childish or not. Sometimes it's called hunour.

I agree with Toad and Thomas. If those that don't like it, leave Spain, the infrastructure would be more able to cope with the numbers of local people. I also agree with Thomas, they, the businesess need to clean up certain areas. I don't live in a tourist area as such, I live in the campo, so we don't have the same shabbiness problem. But I do see your point Thomas.

mr toad - tourism

|2010-01-08 13:39:13

I remember cream but i did not know there was a drum solo named after me !Cream , birds ,animals,rolling stones, were my time , though i have a liking, for big joe turner,chuck berry, howling wolf,tee bone walker,john lee hooker,billie holiday , i have to mention .
but as regards the 60 /70s i did spend alot of time well stoned and under the influence of alcohol and they say if you remember the 60s you were not there. Bits i remember but NOT A LOT,
Ilike you live in the campo, but the encroaching urbs ./ghettos,were getting closer and closer.As Thomas says they are left to become a blight on the landscape, this being due to the local councils having taken the money but do nothing towards the maintenance and upkeep as they should.Still for me integration with the spanish could improve tourism mixed comuinities living and working togeter would atract more and well better quality of tourist ,than are coming now i mean the family group who wont to see and enjoy spain not an england in the sun .
Ok if you want that you have bennny and marbellaand the like , the real spain should be promoted the spanish , spain ,sell the culture not the fish and chips and booze palaces.
Still what do i know i am but a humble toad ,nice chatting to you mark.

ShanDoom - Roy The Boy

|2010-01-11 13:41:50

See my comments as a visitor to Spain in Mojacar above (HUFC):
SO ROY IS DOING THE BREAKFAST SHOW FROM NEXT WEEK, I hope he's still on Choice Fm on an afternoon

Mark, Alcaucin - Shandoon

|2010-01-11 14:21:28

Hi,
I'm a little confused ShanDoon. Are you ShanDoon or HUFC, or both? I liked the song title game and tried to keep it going when they changed the forum for the final time. If you are a visitor to Spain, either or both of you, what are the things that Spain could do, apart from sorting the housing legality mess out, and about fifty other things. That said I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I like Spain, warts and all.

Nice to hear from you again.

Cheers
Mark

Thomas Hughes

|2010-02-22 19:33:59

I have today booked a flight to Malaga for another short break in the area. Last night I browsed your blog for the latest tourist news on Torremolinos. Back in January I made remarks on how run-down I thought the Montemar area was and that it looked a bit of a shanty town.
I would just like to mention to some of the people who responded that I did not state that I lived in the area but had only been visiting for over 25 years. So therefore I am unable to take up your advice of "if you do not like it here, go back home". This reply is aimed at Mr. Toady or what ever he wishes to call himself. Torremolinos has so many happy memories for my wife children and myself and would be pleased to see it keeping itself at the fore front of tourism.
Best wishes to all. Thomas

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Your Voice in Spain

How could the tourist authorities improve the tourism industry?

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